A Response to a Vegan Critic

In the comments section to my last post on vegetarianism, vlastimilvohanka posted some of his friend’s criticisms of my piece.  Three of the four were without philosophical content and so rather beside the point on a philosophy blog (but if you wish, you can find my response to them here).  The last one, however, was more philosophically substantive and, I believe, worth addressing:

4.  Even if the author did need dairy and eggs to survive, he makes a serious mistake when he reasons that if his diet supports industries that kill intelligent animals, he might as well go ahead and eat meat, thus supporting even more industries that kill animals. This would be like a general saying, “In order to defend ourselves, we must kill enemy combatants. But if we’re going to do that, we are no longer morally pure. We might as well go ahead and kill the women and children too.” The flaw in this reasoning should be obvious.

As I understand it – interpretation is required, unfortunately, since the author fails to make his reasoning explicit – the critique is dependent upon two different but closely linked claims. The first is that my claim “that the only morally consistent vegetarianism is veganism” is, in a word, wrong. There is room, on what I take to be my critic’s view, for the identification of a moral imperative for harm reduction with moral vegetarianism. The second is that from lacto-ovo vegetarianism’s failure to meet ethical purity standards, it does not follow that a vegetarian ought to abandon their vegetarianism for omnivory instead. It is these arguments that I will address here.

1.      Some Preliminary Statements and Definitions

I don’t suppose that it shall be necessary to define omnivory, while veganism is (or can be) defined simply as an avoidance of all animal products tout court. What stands in need of definition are ‘vegetarianism’ and its cognates. For the duration of this essay, by ‘vegetarian’ I shall be referring not to veganism (which is itself a variety of vegetarianism), but only to those diets that exclude flesh foods while accepting other animal products. On this definition, lacto-, ovo-, and lacto-ovo vegetarianism count, while pescetarianism – a diet that includes seafood but excludes all other flesh foods – does not (but, for some bizarre reason, is considered by many to be included under the vegetarian umbrella). Also, the mental distinction between vegetarianism as a dietary description and vegetarianism as a moral doctrine must be assiduously maintained – therefore, I shall be differentiating between the two as, respectively, ‘vegetarianism’ and ‘moral vegetarianism’ (the same goes for veganism and omnivory). This distinction is an important one to make, since a mere diet cannot be subject to claims of consistency or inconsistency, but a moral doctrine that prescribes a certain diet or set of specific dietary restrictions (e.g. abstention from pork products or the use of yeast in baking) most certainly can. Therefore, at risk of belabouring the point, I am confining myself to the discussion only of moral vegetarianism – the avoidance of flesh foods for reasons of personal distaste or the pursuit of expected health benefits resulting from their abandonment will not be under consideration here.  How, then, is moral vegetarianism to be defined?

As I understand it, the key doctrine of moral vegetarianism is that killing an animal is a wrong or, what is the same, impermissible act[1].  There are different routes used by vegetarian theorists to arrive at this point – for some it is axiomatic, for others it may be based upon animal consciousness or religious imperatives, and there are many more possible justifications for the doctrine – but that this is the crucial component of any moral vegetarianism cannot seriously be denied (the moral case for omnivory, for example, rests on the assumption, whether explicit or implicit, that killing an animal is not wrong simpliciter).  From this disavowal of killing, it is a short step to arguing against the permissibility of the consumption of meat, for obvious reasons.  What differentiates moral vegetarianism from moral veganism (which concurs with this line of argument so far) is that the former permits the use and consumption of animal products which are not harvested through killing (lacto-ovo vegetarianism), whereas the latter, for various reasons, does not.  Of course, I recognize that there is little chance that this (or any given) definition will command universal assent, but this particular account has, I believe, two particular virtues.  The first is that it is general enough and, I think, close enough to the doctrinal core of all moral vegetarianisms that it is a good enough proxy for any of them.  Second, is that this is the skeleton of the moral case for vegetarianism that I found compelling and, since the original essay was specifically about my reasons for and against adhering to a vegetarian diet, this is the appropriate definition to use.  Others may wish to argue for alternative core doctrines for moral vegetarianism, but they shall have to do so on their own time.

2.      My Basic Argument for Moral Inconsistency

The original argument I made was as follows.  If we turn our attention to dairy production, some of its realities become readily apparent.  Just as is the case for humans and other mammalian species, the milk given by dairy cows is intended for the nourishment of their offspring.  This means that in order to give milk dairy cows must be made and kept pregnant.  Like most mammalian species, the sex ratio for dairy cows is approximately 1:1 – for every female calf born, there is (statistically speaking) a male calf born.  The implication of this is that, as far as dairy production is concerned, just fewer than half of all calves are of no use (only a very small number of bulls is required to make and keep an army of dairy-cows pregnant).  Given that this is the case, something or other must be done with all these surplus males.  Even if a dairy-farmer wished to keep the males alive and well, the sheer (and growing) number of them would very quickly prove to be prohibitive[2] – ultimately, the solution is culling.  Much the same may be said for egg production.  With this fact in mind, the inconsistency of the moral case for a vegetarian diet is readily apparent.  Moral vegetarianism is premised upon the doctrine that the killing of animals is wrong, but dairy and egg production for the sake of human consumption necessitates the killing (of a very large number) of animals.  It is certainly not clear to me what meaningful difference exists between the killing of a cow so that one may eat steak and the killing of a cow so that one may drink milk or eat cheese – it seems a distinction without a difference.  For this reason, I suggest that a moral vegetarianism worth its salt actually cannot tolerate the adherence to a mere (lacto-ovo) vegetarian diet and must instead promote a vegan diet[3].  But even if this argument is right, there may be some means by which we might still reconcile moral vegetarianism to (dietary) vegetarianism, so the question is whether there is some other justification of vegetarianism that could be called a moral vegetarianism?

3.      The Inconsistency of Moral Vegetarianism as Harm Reduction

My critic’s example of the war-time general deciding to massacre civilians as a clear example of a moral wrong actually suggests a way to potentially save moral vegetarianism.  The implication of the example is, of course, that the general would be acting as morally as possible (given the circumstances) if he made all efforts to minimize the harms caused by his army.  Likewise, moral vegetarianism could be construed as the moral claim that killing animals for food is wrong and therefore, a minimization of harm (measured, in part, as number of animals killed) is imperative.  Unfortunately for moral vegetarians, this too is an inconsistent position, both for theoretical and practical reasons.

I first turn my attention toward the theoretical inconsistency of moral vegetarianism as harm reduction.  The main problem for this construal of moral vegetarianism is that it elides the distinction between what is wrong or impermissible and what is merely unfortunate or undesirable.  Generally, we think that if something is wrong, it simply ought not to be done, not that it ought to be done less frequently or to lesser extremes.  Take the example of torture – one thinks either that torture qua torture is wrong and ought not to be done, or that torture is acceptable under some certain set of circumstances (and provided the methods used are not disproportionate, etc.)[4].  Given this, it is difficult to see how a ‘moral vegetarianism’ that is equivalent to a harm reduction approach actually is a moral vegetarianism.  This is because even with the universal adoption of lacto-ovo vegetarianism by the population, it would still be the case that many animals will be killed to enable egg and dairy consumption.  Moral vegetarianism, however, takes it for granted that killing animals is impermissible.  ‘Moral vegetarian’ harm reduction must ultimately amount to the adoption of a vegan diet.  Otherwise, if instead ‘moral vegetarianism’ takes the position that such killing is merely unfortunate and worth minimizing, it is unclear what differentiates that position from a compassionate omnivory – especially in light of what is said below.

There is a very serious practical problem for the position that moral vegetarianism can be equivalent to harm reduction.  The problem is this – any harm reduction approach that is not vegan will necessarily demand the consumption of meat.  The reasoning is as follows.  All humans have a certain set of nutritional needs that must be satisfied in order to survive and to flourish.  If we are to allow the consumption of eggs and dairy products to meet some or all of those needs, there will necessarily be animals slaughtered.  Now we have a choice – we can either eat the slaughtered animals or not.  Obviously, if we are going to keep to a vegetarian diet we are not going to eat them.  Unfortunately, this will have the end result that more animals will be slaughtered than if we chose to eat the already dead ones.  This is because animal flesh is incontrovertibly a rich source of nutrition for human beings, a much richer source than either of eggs or dairy.  If we consumed the dead animals, we would much more quickly satisfy our nutritional needs than without doing so, but since we have chosen not to, we will have to make up the deficit through other means.  This most probably would mean more eggs and dairy, which means more producing animals, which means more animals slaughtered.

Of course, it will be argued that we could make up the difference elsewhere, through farming beans or somesuch – we could even use the slaughtered animals as fertilizer.  But this proposed solution fails.  One, it raises the question of why, if we are able to meet our nutritional needs without animal products (that is, on a vegan diet) and we are interested in minimizing harm, we would opt to consume eggs and dairy in the first place.  Second, it fails to account for the fact that with every step in the process, nutritional value is lost.  In the transition from slaughtered animal to fertilizer, we lose a lot of nutritional value, and so again for the transitions from fertilizer to plant food to processed plant food, etc.  Every bit of nutritional value lost at every point along the chain will eventually equal the nutritional value of a whole slaughtered animal, at which point that animal has been killed for no reason and harm is no longer at a minimum.  Third, it raises questions about for whose sake we are committed to our vegetarianism.  After all, it makes absolutely no difference to the dead animal what our intentions were when we killed it or what our plans are for its body once it is dead.  It begins to look suspiciously like we are avoiding eating the slaughtered animals not because we are actually committed to minimizing harm, but because we are squeamish about the implications of our failure (for whatever reason) to advocate veganism.

4.      From Inconsistency to Either Veganism or Omnivory

So, to briefly recap, moral vegetarianism is inconsistent in its advocacy of mere vegetarianism, because both egg and dairy production necessitate the killing of many animals, which stands in direct contradiction to the moral impermissibility of killing.  In order to avoid this inconsistency, moral vegetarianism must advocate vegan diets.  If moral vegetarianism is construed as harm reduction, however, it once again either collapses into veganism, or is inconsistent.  If it is inconsistent, it is because it willingly permits the slaughter of animals despite its own position that killing animals is impermissible.  Harm reduction plus the moral impermissibility of killing animals amounts to veganism, while harm reduction that admits the permissibility of killing animals is not meaningfully different from a compassionate omnivory.

What my critic accuses me of, and what I am eminently not guilty of, is having, at this point, decided that because my diet already causes some harm, then, for this reason alone, I “might as well go ahead and eat meat,” just as the general might as well go ahead and massacre the civilians[5].  This is so obviously stupid a thought, and so obviously not what took place (to quote myself: “[a]ll this led me to a reevaluation of what morality demanded of me as regards meat and meat-eating”) that it cannot have escaped his notice.  Indeed, his usage of “might as well” is intended to suggest the occurrence of a logical non sequitur where in fact there was none.  I say this because from the inconsistency of moral vegetarianism alone, omnivory clearly isn’t the only theoretical possibility – veganism is also an option (what isn’t an option, however, is to continue to eat eggs and dairy while imagining oneself some sort of morally superior being).  Having reached this point (and vegetarians who have read this essay will now be well on their way) one is faced with the stark reality of one’s diet.  Either killing to eat is wrong and should not be done at all, or it is not wrong to kill in order to eat.

Furthermore, if it is not wrong to kill in order to eat, it is hard to see any principled limiting factors on how often or how many animals one is permitted to eat (though numerous unprincipled factors will sway one’s judgement on this count).  For instance, if it is acceptable to swat one mosquito to save oneself from contracting a blood-borne disease, it is acceptable to swat any number of them – an endless addition of zeros still sums to zero.  And to return to his analogy of the war-time general, if it is acceptable to kill one enemy soldier in order to win a war, then it is acceptable to kill any number of enemy soldiers to win the war.  From this it does not follow that killing civilians is acceptable – this because killing civilians is an entirely different class of action from killing enemy combatants.  The real-world equivalent of his massacre analogy is if one were to make the leap from “killing animals to eat is morally permissible” to “killing animals for any reason whatsoever (e.g. fun, curiosity) is morally permissible.”  That would be a non sequitur, but it is certainly not what I have argued for.

Here, then, is the real crux of the issue – he and I have irreconcilable differences of opinion over the nutritional feasibility of veganism.  I think it can’t work and that to think the opposite is to be ignoring reality in favour of an ideology.  He obviously thinks me stupid (or evil, or deluded), else his critique wouldn’t have had the tone that it did[6, 7].  But if I am right about veganism being an inadequate diet for human flourishing (and the evidence in favour of veganism is less than overwhelming), then it can no more be wrong for a human being to consume animals for sustenance than it is for the wolf, barring some cosmic principle of morality that puts me and the wolf equally in the wrong.  If I am incorrect, however, then veganism is the only morally consistent position left (and vegans should be pleased about this).  The fact remains, however, that one either believes that killing animals in order to eat is wrong, or it isn’t.  I made my choice.

 

Endnotes:

[1] Some moral vegetarianisms may build in exceptions to this doctrine, just as many moral theorists allow that killing a human in self-defence is permissible.  Tom Reagan, for instance, permits the killing and consumption of animal flesh in life-or-death situations.

[2] This is so for reasons of cost, but also for reasons of pure practicality.  Feeding and housing these animals would prove very difficult to do, requiring ever greater utilization of unmolested natural lands for farming (for feed) and for living-space for these animals.  Not to mention, bulls do not get along well.

[3] Perhaps, in some science fiction future wherein we have altered the genetic code of dairy cows such that the sex ratio is precisely set so as to avoid the need for culls, this will no longer be the case, but so long as dairy production remains what it is, veganism is the only morally consistent vegetarianism.

[4] This is not to say, of course, that if one believes something to be wrong he cannot argue for taking measures intended to effect a general reduction in its occurrence (for instance, making illegal the manufacture, sale, and possession of date rape drugs).  What it does mean, however, is that harm reduction is ultimately inappropriate for something that is wrong, especially when it is as susceptible to control as what we put in our mouths.

[5] I feel that I ought to point out just how absurd the posited moral equivalence between a militarily pointless massacre of civilians and the slaughtering of chickens to make soup really is.  I can’t imagine that anyone who isn’t a vegan would accept that these cases really are analogous.

[6] But then, the criticism wasn’t really directed at me (I only know of it because his friend reposted here) – it was really for the benefit of his fellow vegans.

[7] Update: He responds in the comment below that he did not intend to make this impression.  I think it appropriate to mention this and I have apologized for my cognitively structuring his comments in a negative way.

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8 Responses to A Response to a Vegan Critic

  1. arpruss says:

    “Even if a dairy-farmer wished to keep the males alive and well, the sheer (and growing) number of them would very quickly prove to be prohibitive[2] – ultimately, the solution is culling.”

    While I’m an omnivore, I don’t think this is very compelling. You could have a dairy farming system where no cattle are killed. Granted, it might be about twice as expensive to run, and thus would significantly increase the costs of milk and cheese. Though it wouldn’t double the costs of milk and cheese, since a significant percentage of the cost is processing and transportation. Besides, the
    inflation-adjusted price of milk has fallen by more than a factor of 2 over the past century. A doubling in the price of milk would simply return the price to what it was like then.

  2. James says:

    Thanks for dropping by!

    Even with an ever-growing herd? Pregnancy is required for milk production, recall. No matter how big the ‘surplus’ herd, in order to have dairy (even at present production levels) we have to have more babies. If we’re not killing them then herds will be increasing in size endlessly. Do we have enough land and resources to devote to housing and feeding them all, in perpetuity, in ever increasing numbers? Some believe we really can’t afford the number of livestock we presently keep. Whether or not culling is a cost-issue, I think it would eventually prove an ecological one.

  3. Stephen Puryear says:

    Hi James. I am the critic to whom you are responding here. Here are few quick reflections:

    1. I pointed to some holes in your original argument and to what seemed to me to be an error in reasoning. I don’t know why you inferred from this, or from my tone, which was respectful throughout, that I think you are stupid, evil, or deluded. I don’t think you are any of those things.

    2. My criticism was not for the benefit of my fellow vegans. In fact, to my knowledge I was the only vegan participating in that discussion. Other than me, the main participants weren’t even vegetarians.

    3. I must admit that I have not had time to read this new post carefully, but it seems to me that here is a point on which we disagree: The production of dairy and eggs does not essentially involve killing or otherwise harming animals. It usually does, at least here in the U.S. But if one were to get one’s dairy and eggs from local farms which did not kill the male calves or male chicks that are by-products of these processes, then I don’t see why this sort of lacto-ovo vegetarianism wouldn’t be consistent with the principle of harm reduction.

    4. Being a lacto-ovo vegetarian almost surely involves causing less harm to animals than being an omnivore, since the omnivore probably consumes similar quantities of dairy and eggs, but then consumes meat on top of that. So if for some reason a person cannot survive on a vegan diet, then I don’t see why lacto-ovo vegetarianism wouldn’t be morally justifiable and perfectly consistent with the principle of harm reduction.

    5. Perhaps what you are calling “compassionate omnivory” is supposed to involve the least amount of harm to animals that is consistent with the individual’s achieving a sufficient degree of well-being. But it seems to me that meat almost always involves more harm to animals than dairy or eggs. For each male chick who is killed, there is a hen who produces an enormous number of eggs over her lifetime. For each male calf who is sold off to a veal farmer or whatever, the mother produces huge quantities of milk (until she stops lactating and needs to give birth again). But for each cow or pig who dies, only a few dozen servings of meat are produced, or perhaps at most somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-100 servings. And for each chicken who dies, only a few servings of meat are produced. The ratio of animals killed per serving of food is so much greater with meat than it is with dairy or eggs, it would seem that the principle of harm reduction would justify an lacto-ovo vegetarian diet over any amount of meat eating.

    I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on these points.

  4. James says:

    Hi Stephen,
    Nice to meet you!

    1+2: If there was no such thinking going on, I apologize for imputing it. I was a little miffed, however, by your comment about gaining weight in one’s twenties. I felt that it was worded somewhat snarkily and was based on an assumption that I had not taken that normal weight gain into consideration. I thought so because I assumed the discussion to be taking place among vegans (since my only context was that it was passed along by your friend). And others have called me names in the past. 😦

    3: As I say somewhere above, I agree that if dairy, say, were possible to have without the culling of ‘surplus’ livestock, then it most certainly would be consistent. The trick is that I don’t see how that is possible at present (again, I above mentioned, in a footnote, the possibility of genetic engineering changing this). The reality is that, sooner or later, a farm such as you describe is going to run out of resources (thought of as cash or feed or whatever) or space to house the animals. Selling or donating the animals wouldn’t solve this problem, since it only pushes it back onto someone else. If we do this over and over again, we will reach the point where either no one is willing to take on another animal or we simply have no more capacity (perhaps we’ve converted the entire surface of the Earth to pasture). Culling would then be necessary.

    4+5: I cover this above, also. Taking for granted that culling happens in the egg and dairy industries as they actually exist, if I eat the body of a culled animal, it does it no more harm to that being than if I bury or cremate it. The mere avoidance of meat does not secure minimum harm – if we allow dairy into our diets, given the actual dairy industry, then it is quite irrelevant to harm minimization whether we eat the culled animals or not. If I am going about slaughtering extra animals then, yes, that fails to minimize harm. But if we permitted only the sale of dairy-industry culled meat, this would cause no more harm than lacto-ovo vegetarianism.

    I should have defined ‘compassionate omnivory’, but I like your definition – it’s close enough to the one I would have given anyway.

  5. Stephen Puryear says:

    “[I]f we permitted only the sale of dairy-industry culled meat, this would cause no more harm than lacto-ovo vegetarianism.” I completely agree with this, but most of the animals killed for food today (including all pigs and turkeys) are not culled from dairy or egg stocks. So buying meat under present circumstances means supporting an industry that causes a great deal of harm to animals over and above what is required to produce sufficient quantities of dairy and eggs.

  6. James says:

    I assume that that’s right about the cull to non-cull ratio. But that’s an argument, at most, not to eat turkey or pork and not to eat more than one’s ‘share’ of the culled meat, not vegetarianism. If one eats no more than his allotted ‘share’ of cull-meat, then he is not “supporting” the meat industry in its problematic excesses.

  7. Stephen Puryear says:

    Sorry for the delayed response, James.

    The last thing you say there strikes me as false, at least as things currently work. Suppose I were to forego my share of cull-meat. That culled meat would then go toward meeting the demands of non-compassionate omnivores, which would in turn mean that fewer non-culled cows would have to be killed for beef. By eating the culled-meat that I am responsible for (by virtue of my dairy consumption), I am actually contributing to a greater amount of harm being done to cows than would be done to them were I to forego that meat.

    Incidentally, in addition to turkey and pork, chicken consumption would not be justified either, since the male chicks who are killed as a result of mass egg production are typically not killed for meat but just disposed of.

  8. James says:

    Quite alright, Stephen, we all have things to do. Glad you came back, I’m enjoying our little back-and-forth! And sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday – it was sunny and I was outside playing all day! 😉

    I see what you’re getting at there. There are two things I think can be said about this:

    First, it strikes me that we may have an honest divergence of intuitions here. I think this puts the spotlight on the matter of how moral responsibility changes in light of others’ behaviour. Consider giving to charity. Say everyone in a society is a miser (except oneself, of course) and there is consequently a great need for charity. Does it follow that the burden of mandatory giving is or ought to be much higher for the non-miserly individual just because everyone else refuses to give? I honestly don’t think so – I would be more inclined to view the others’ refusal to give to charity as a failure on their part (and also as beyond one’s control).

    Similarly, as you say, if one chooses to eat less meat, this will mean that less is consumed overall. But presumably those others’ consumption will hold at a steady level no matter what you do. And though you may be going above the call of duty, I don’t think it is required that one ought to minimize aggregate meat consumption, but just one’s own (if we’re looking to do the former, then we’re talking about political action). If they are doing something wrong by consuming more than their share, then I think it is they who are in the wrong, not the minimizer. I don’t think one actually would be contributing to the slaughter of a greater than necessary number of cows, since it is those meat-eaters who are commissioning the deed.

    Second, there is something weird to me about calling this harm reduction approach ‘vegetarianism’. It still requires the death of animals in order to eat (and so must accept that to kill in order to eat is acceptable). There is also the matter that if enough people went lacto-ovo, it would still be acceptable (and on the stronger version I gave above, required) for some people to eat a lot of meat. That looks like a very weird harm reduction strategy (EDIT: should read ‘vegetarianism’) and strikes me as being motivated more by concern for personal moral purity than concern for animals’ well-being.

    Point taken about chicken. Although we can still eat exhausted egg-layers on the view (indeed, if you’ve had a McNugget…)

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